this is incredibly beautiful, and i found so many resonances with your ways of thinking through these issues--even though i have not listened to the telepathy tapes. a lot of folks i know have, and have tried to express some of what you are getting at here, and i will share this with them.
hi!! I am one of the people Marta shared your encompassing essay with. AHHH (more garbles of connections and words) you have seriously articulated/written a significant heft of what I've been trying to organize/externalize for months - down to the opening parts of defining and outlining your context and what is shaping your perspective.
I too have circled back to Danny Whitty's words (also really enjoy his & his sisters podcast All Our Brave Hearts) and felt the spiky-spikes of most (if not all) of the criticisms you outlined. The 3 vignettes were also poignant and relatable for me as someone who works with ID/DD folks and nonspeakers, and highlight an additional criticism I've had trouble articulating: a dissonance with disability/mental health spaces promoting acceptance and compassion of madness (more terms/context: crip, queer, mad, psych abolition), but *this* (telepathy/spiritual buffet) is a step too far, or as you said, cult vibes.
Anywho, I don't know if I have an essay in me yet, but your essay/labor feels like the kind of call-template I could actually respond-weave my own experiences out from, and I really appreciate that!
Lizzy! Oh this comment made me *so* happy, and I sort of selfishly hope you do write the piece, because I would love to hear more of this kind of thinking. Please utilize my piece as a template / inspiration as much as you need to!
Also, I kind of want to share this VERY personal (and kind of silly) thing with you...here's an actual note (copy and pasted) that I wrote to myself, from the document I originally crafted this essay in: "Dear Sarah: You have been here before, I promise: Feeling as if this is the essay that will break you. You can do this. Your brain just needs time and space, the gentleness of a numbered list format, and your willingness to write through one small piece of your thinking at a time. It will pan out. You will get to the end of this essay and have once again the revelatory feeling of having seen a new part of yourself. The euphoria of understanding, turned like a warm hug back toward your own sensitive body."
So, like...I really didn't think I could do this, and then I wrote that to myself, and then I did it. So I think maybe you can do it too?!
I can feel the weight, labor, and also moments of weightless freedom of navigating through this one for you. Hearing from all the parts of you was beautiful and expansive.
(My fingers kept sending this comment before I was finished 😂 so if you saw this come through differently that’s why)
This was such a relief to read. I had an intense reaction listening to the podcast as it was coming out, well before I started seeing criticisms of it. Moments of deep resonance and familiarity that helped me connect to my newly discovered (at 43?!) autistic self—like when Anil described not realizing he had a body, I simply burst into tears. I listened to every episode one after another twice through, sometimes forgetting to breathe while the spellers were talking. When I started seeing the criticisms of it, some of the loudest coming from inside the autistic community, I went into a rage. A confusing rage. I canceled two Patreon subscriptions and wrote a barely coherent email that still haunts me when I’m trying to fall asleep. I couldn’t even bring myself to read Devon Price’s post about it. I muted his feed because it felt humiliating for some reason. And not understanding my own rage wrapped it tight in shame. With a little space now I can recognize that I was listening so intently and carefully and tenderly to the stories the subjects were telling about themselves and pretty much completely ignored all the “science” or “testing” or whatever else was going on. When the host would do narration I’d zone out and think about what and why I was connecting with their experiences so deeply. All of that talking over or talking around or talking through felt irrelevant to me. It was so clearly not the point. And that was what my rage was trying to say the whole time: YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT. Who cares if telepathy is real when we can connect through listening to each other’s experiences. And what’s the difference, tangibly, between “telepathy” and thinking in flow with someone else, like the orchestra example. Making distinctions like that is uninteresting and I get so mad when that distinction becomes the focus when there is so much humanity to connect with. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT I stomp and shout at my phone screen—and then I’m crushed by the irony of all the points I miss all the time.
And I really loved listening to you read this. It was a relief and a pleasure and a release of shame to think with your voice. I was moved.
Emilar! I really have no words to express how happy I am that I wrote this and that you found it. I'm so right there with you...with the dysregulation and the intense almost unbearable feelings, which were (thank gawd) for me somewhat metabolized by writing this.
And I also started crying when I heard about Akhil (I think that was his name) in episode 2--I know the *exact* moment you're talking about, because it spoke to something I have always felt (though a muted version of it) but never had language for. I think in a longer version of this essay (can you believe it: the original was LONGER), I spoke about that more specifically. Here's a short video, from artist Sam Metz, that was similarly impactful to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEaMz7cY2iE
I haven’t listened to the podcast because I sensed it would turn into an internal wrestling match that I just don’t have space for. You have given me a deeper understanding and really affirmed my decision while also touching me deeply with your reflections on it all - especially the stories about your clients and radical empathy. “Thank you for not being afraid of me” choked me up. I know exactly what he means 😢
Sarah, thanks for your courage and heart in writing this piece and then publishing it. You've voiced much that resonates with me but that I've never managed to express so well. Synchronicity: you've given me extra impetus to finish and publish a post about a memoir that blew me away this month, the story of a blind man whose inner light helped guide the French Resistance.
Good morning dear Sarah! I didn't expect this birdsong filled morning to greet me with a combination of explosively beautiful and pin drop quiet writing. Thank you for the deepest sharing! have had the honor of listening to The Telepathy Tapes, and along with the natural world's wonders, it is the most profound podcast I have ever (and will probably ever) experience. My response to both is simply: We don't know much. In this modern age, we think we do, yet we don't. And what we don't know, or can't quantify, can result in Magic because it may not have the science lens and/or it may simply remain forever unknown, unproven. Jack Ward Thomas, Wildlife Biologist and the only Wildlife Biologist to administer the U.S. Forest Service: "The old growth forest is more complex than we know...more than we will ever know." American poet Carl Sandberg writes: A 1800's American Calvery Officer is talking/boasting to a Native American Chief, as he draws with a stick in the sand. "This big circle is what WE know." Then he draws a smaller circle within the big one, "And this is what you know." The Chief asks for the stick and draws and enormous circle around the other two, "This is what nobody knows." Thoreau: "Men say they know many things. The arts, the sciences, a thousand appliances. The wind that blows is all any man knows." I love radical empathy! Perhaps, it has little to do about knowing, but much more about feeling. Love, Bill
Thank you. It seems that you somehow find a way to soar ever higher, taking in an increasingly expansive view of the world, its people, its challenges, joys and conundrums, and waving your magic wand, miraculously putting it down on virtual paper to enrich the world.
I too have been mulling over this topic for a while . . . I listened to 5 or six episodes before ALL The criticism came out. But I honestly had to stop because I could *feel* the weight of grief of how non-speakers have been treated by our world. I had no trouble listening with openness to the idea of folks meeting on "the hill" but as soon as I started researching the main doctor doing the research (who believes autism can/should be "cured") I was pretty much out. As an autistic person I too struggle with how susceptible I am to grifters or people who have an agenda, and this heavily produced podcast seems to fit into this narrative while also being more complicated than that. I think from a harm reduction standpoint I am hoping against hope this encourages people not to abuse non-speaking children and people, but as far as a piece of journalistic media goes the Telepathy Tapes is riddled with issues.
Hi D.L.! It’s really good to hear from you—thank you for reading and for sharing your thoughts.
I really feel what you said about the weight of grief. I’ve felt that, too. Out of curiosity, was that feeling more connected to the podcast itself, or to the criticism surrounding it? Or both?
Also, when you mention “the main doctor doing the research,” I’m curious who you’re referring to? There are a number of researchers and studies mentioned across the series (especially in the later episodes), and I’m genuinely asking because I’d love to better understand where you’re coming from. Approaching autism as something to be “cured” would be a huge red flag for me, too. And to be clear, I don't see the podcast as promoting that idea whatsoever.
That tension you name—between being open and being careful—is something I’m sitting with as well. One thing I hoped to explore in my piece is how easily we risk flattening real people into ideas, whether by idealizing them or reducing them only to victims of harm. My own response to the podcast is shaped not just by the show itself, but by real relationships I have with nonspeakers—people I’ve worked with, learned from, and witnessed in their full complexity. So I come to it with more context than the podcast alone, and I really do want people to move closer, not farther away, especially when things feel complicated.
If you have the space, I really recommend listening to Episode 10. It’s composed entirely of quotes from nonspeakers—a celebration of agency, insight, and joy. Their voices are present throughout the series, but that episode in particular foregrounds them. And/or I recommend picking up the book I quote throughout my essay! I think for me, this is what matters most: that we’re not just talking about communication methods or research protocols, but about people—and people are always more than any one narrative.
Thanks again for being in this conversation with care <3 I really appreciate it.
I was referring to Dr. Diane Hennecy Powell who is in the first few episodes in particular doing the research. Also this piece points out the really gross evangelical people interviewed in the Telepathy Tapes (there is a connection here to my work with Dr. Dobson stuff): https://www.webworm.co/p/trojanhorse. I think the way this show was produced and the people Ky chose to platform have unfortunately made this a really unreliable source for me personally. But I still believe listening to and learning from non-speakers is so valuable and I hope against hope this does help us humanize this population.
Oof, yeah--really well said re: the unfortunate consequences of who got platformed. Because that's a really troubling thing to learn about Dr. Powell and the other evangelical folks. (And, frankly, kind of baffling to me, given what I understand a core mission of the podcast to be.)
Also I think it is honestly such important work you are doing here wrestling with your own intuition, a piece of popular media, and critiques from thinkers you like (but don't always agree with). This is such important stuff! I myself struggle with needing to have everything I like be perfect but that just isn't our reality.
Also, one last thing: I keep thinking about how important this is, because of the way you said it:
"I think the way this show was produced and the people Ky chose to platform have unfortunately made this a really unreliable source for me personally."
Because you're saying something bigger than just, "this is objectively bad, period" You're pointing out why this resource can't be salvaged *for you.* I just think this is all any of us have: our context! And that conversations that are context-forward are where the realest dialogue can take place, and where we can really start to hear and understand each other.
This is such a nuanced, lovely, generous and thoughtful essay. Thank you. I don’t see how anyone could hate you for writing this, but if they do, that’s their issue—you can’t solve it for them.
I am grateful for Ky Dickens for gathering together so many wonderful stories and conducting fascinating experiments and giving the mike to non speakers. And also frustrated in that she arranged it all in such a way that is very us vs. them. She seems to have a bone to pick with Science and so it’s not surprising that people who align themselves with Science are like, ew! No! Bunk! Etc.
Anyway, the idea that any of us speak completely independently, in a vacuum, is common, but somewhat lacking in understanding. The words that come into my head, the thoughts that arise, are influenced by the other people, nonhuman animals, or plants or wind or sunlight or darkness around me. We are all helping (or hindering) each other to speak and not speak. Some speakers may be distancing distance themselves from non speakers due to be hierarchies of intelligence that are baked into most academic thinking.
Eliza, 1) THANK YOU. And 2) Wow--I think you're spot: "She seems to have a bone to pick with Science and so it’s not surprising that people who align themselves with Science are like, ew! No! Bunk! Etc." This is a really nuanced criticism I hadn't heard yet.
Thanks, too, for all your beautiful words. Really grateful for your readership and to be in dialogue with you.
I am late diagnosed, self diagnosed, and struggling with peeling off all the internalized ableism that has been suffocating me all these years, not knowing how to find myself apart from the mask. Everything you write, from the fragmented way you organize meaning to the complex, painfully accurate way you organize words, feels as natural as gravity. Thank you for being a guiding light.
As for the Tapes, I’ve listened, i believe them, because i have similar lived experience.
I believe empathy is the key to life. I have worked hard to develop my spelling skills these past twenty years. Therefore, it goes hand in hand with with my ability to empathize with the universality of human experience. Having a forum to discuss these ideas is a true act of love.
this is a tour de force, Sarah. Whew. Your commitment to nuance, radical honesty and empathy, and layered critique is so deeply admirable (not to mention courageous). There is this entanglement of spirituality and science that feels deeply connected to the gestalt phenomenology of my own experience as an Autistic, a writer, and a person-in-the-world, and I love how this piece made space for that, and space for gorgeous uncertainty. I ESPECIALLY loved how your writing interweaved with the writing of nonspeakers, crafting more of a tapestry of perspectives than a monolith (AND it made me want to look more into the nonspeaking writers you mentioned, which should be the goal of any telepathy tapes critique or analysis).
Well this really makes me feel like I did something right...THANK YOU for reading and also taking the time to share this lovely feedback.
P.S. I would love to read you talk more about your understanding of gestalt phenomenology and how it speaks to your autistic experience! I imagine maybe you've already published some stuff that speaks to this??
and ah yes!! It’s definitely been underneath and implicitly interwoven through my writing on here so far…but I do have a piece I’m working on re: autism, narrative, gestalt, phenomenology, etc 🤓 I’ll dm you if/when it gets posted on here
Thank you so much for writing this! I discovered the criticisms after rushing through many episodes with curiosity and the jubilation of recognition. And then the crushing confusion. Thankfully I happened to find your essay - which helped process my thoughts much faster than if I had had to nut through them on my own. I found my perspective to be mirrored in your words, I even hold dear a similar, perhaps overlapping phrase – radical kindness.
Belle, this makes me *so* happy to read. I had to navigate such strange terrain after first encountering some of the more harmful criticisms, and at times I felt so alone and confused about that. The fact that my essay could help someone else in that same space is just, like, the best possible outcome.
Also: radical kindness! I love this so much. I'd actually love to hear more about what that means to you, if it's something you felt like sharing about in some capacity :)
This was beautifully written, and overwhelmingly familiar, I felt all those feels when I was preparing to deliver my first speech on Toastmasters...via Zoom 😅😜, it was about so much more than the speech, or my written words, it was just me and my internal terrorist trying to out-debate each other, my No pulling back the Yes off of my tongue making it want to curl up in a corner but I did it, I did it scared, I did it croaky, I did it shaky, I did it imperfectly but I did it..., thank you for sharing yourself so authentically with us Sarah, it is this authenticity that builds connection! 💛🌻
This was such an incredibly lovely essay in form and content. From another late- diagnosed autistic who speaks but also frequently finds that the right words are tucked far away in my mind (I describe it as having to dive for words - like swimming to the bottom of a pool to collect items)- thank you so much for sharing this. I related to so, so much, and now I want to listen to the telepathy tapes.
Thank you for this response that holds so many truths. I have also struggled with both the podcast itself and the various responses to it. The podcast itself changed me in that it invited me to sink more deeply into my belief of what I already know—that a lot of my own communication and perception happens on a plane that is nonverbal and non-quantifiable, one that I can't fully explain. At the same time, I hit a point where I had to stop listening because both the podcast and the discussion around it became too much to me. I found the criticisms to be overly dismissive and unable to hold any room for nuance or possibility. At the same time, the deeper I got into the podcast (I think I stopped at episode 9) the more I found that it moved too quickly through topics I wanted to explore in more depth. (The episode that covers animal telepathy for example.) Anyways, that's just my own relationship to the podcast. I really appreciated the way you so beautifully unpacked this.
Maybe this is already obvious, but I am so right there with you, Jennifer. And the more I metabolize this whole thing, the more I realize both the gifts *and* limitations of the podcast--but more importantly, the gross problem of many of the criticisms not working hard enough to distinguish the pod from the nonspeakers featured on it.
Thank you so much for taking the time to read this behemoth :) I'm really pleased it landed well with you.
this is incredibly beautiful, and i found so many resonances with your ways of thinking through these issues--even though i have not listened to the telepathy tapes. a lot of folks i know have, and have tried to express some of what you are getting at here, and i will share this with them.
Marta, this means *a lot* coming from you. I'm so flattered...and really grateful for all the resonances between us!
hi!! I am one of the people Marta shared your encompassing essay with. AHHH (more garbles of connections and words) you have seriously articulated/written a significant heft of what I've been trying to organize/externalize for months - down to the opening parts of defining and outlining your context and what is shaping your perspective.
I too have circled back to Danny Whitty's words (also really enjoy his & his sisters podcast All Our Brave Hearts) and felt the spiky-spikes of most (if not all) of the criticisms you outlined. The 3 vignettes were also poignant and relatable for me as someone who works with ID/DD folks and nonspeakers, and highlight an additional criticism I've had trouble articulating: a dissonance with disability/mental health spaces promoting acceptance and compassion of madness (more terms/context: crip, queer, mad, psych abolition), but *this* (telepathy/spiritual buffet) is a step too far, or as you said, cult vibes.
Anywho, I don't know if I have an essay in me yet, but your essay/labor feels like the kind of call-template I could actually respond-weave my own experiences out from, and I really appreciate that!
Lizzy! Oh this comment made me *so* happy, and I sort of selfishly hope you do write the piece, because I would love to hear more of this kind of thinking. Please utilize my piece as a template / inspiration as much as you need to!
Also, I kind of want to share this VERY personal (and kind of silly) thing with you...here's an actual note (copy and pasted) that I wrote to myself, from the document I originally crafted this essay in: "Dear Sarah: You have been here before, I promise: Feeling as if this is the essay that will break you. You can do this. Your brain just needs time and space, the gentleness of a numbered list format, and your willingness to write through one small piece of your thinking at a time. It will pan out. You will get to the end of this essay and have once again the revelatory feeling of having seen a new part of yourself. The euphoria of understanding, turned like a warm hug back toward your own sensitive body."
So, like...I really didn't think I could do this, and then I wrote that to myself, and then I did it. So I think maybe you can do it too?!
I can feel the weight, labor, and also moments of weightless freedom of navigating through this one for you. Hearing from all the parts of you was beautiful and expansive.
(My fingers kept sending this comment before I was finished 😂 so if you saw this come through differently that’s why)
Thank you Katilyn <3 I'm REALLY grateful that came through. And taking extra care to keep my nervous system regulated today, lol...
This was such a relief to read. I had an intense reaction listening to the podcast as it was coming out, well before I started seeing criticisms of it. Moments of deep resonance and familiarity that helped me connect to my newly discovered (at 43?!) autistic self—like when Anil described not realizing he had a body, I simply burst into tears. I listened to every episode one after another twice through, sometimes forgetting to breathe while the spellers were talking. When I started seeing the criticisms of it, some of the loudest coming from inside the autistic community, I went into a rage. A confusing rage. I canceled two Patreon subscriptions and wrote a barely coherent email that still haunts me when I’m trying to fall asleep. I couldn’t even bring myself to read Devon Price’s post about it. I muted his feed because it felt humiliating for some reason. And not understanding my own rage wrapped it tight in shame. With a little space now I can recognize that I was listening so intently and carefully and tenderly to the stories the subjects were telling about themselves and pretty much completely ignored all the “science” or “testing” or whatever else was going on. When the host would do narration I’d zone out and think about what and why I was connecting with their experiences so deeply. All of that talking over or talking around or talking through felt irrelevant to me. It was so clearly not the point. And that was what my rage was trying to say the whole time: YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT. Who cares if telepathy is real when we can connect through listening to each other’s experiences. And what’s the difference, tangibly, between “telepathy” and thinking in flow with someone else, like the orchestra example. Making distinctions like that is uninteresting and I get so mad when that distinction becomes the focus when there is so much humanity to connect with. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT I stomp and shout at my phone screen—and then I’m crushed by the irony of all the points I miss all the time.
And I really loved listening to you read this. It was a relief and a pleasure and a release of shame to think with your voice. I was moved.
Emilar! I really have no words to express how happy I am that I wrote this and that you found it. I'm so right there with you...with the dysregulation and the intense almost unbearable feelings, which were (thank gawd) for me somewhat metabolized by writing this.
And I also started crying when I heard about Akhil (I think that was his name) in episode 2--I know the *exact* moment you're talking about, because it spoke to something I have always felt (though a muted version of it) but never had language for. I think in a longer version of this essay (can you believe it: the original was LONGER), I spoke about that more specifically. Here's a short video, from artist Sam Metz, that was similarly impactful to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEaMz7cY2iE
I haven’t listened to the podcast because I sensed it would turn into an internal wrestling match that I just don’t have space for. You have given me a deeper understanding and really affirmed my decision while also touching me deeply with your reflections on it all - especially the stories about your clients and radical empathy. “Thank you for not being afraid of me” choked me up. I know exactly what he means 😢
Thank you, Sarah! I totally hear that boundary--and I'm glad that my reflections could be both useful *and* reinforce your decision, which I admire.
Sarah, thanks for your courage and heart in writing this piece and then publishing it. You've voiced much that resonates with me but that I've never managed to express so well. Synchronicity: you've given me extra impetus to finish and publish a post about a memoir that blew me away this month, the story of a blind man whose inner light helped guide the French Resistance.
I think I commented on your note, but not this comment itself? Anyway, it's worth saying again: I am so especially glad you read it, Jody <3
Good morning dear Sarah! I didn't expect this birdsong filled morning to greet me with a combination of explosively beautiful and pin drop quiet writing. Thank you for the deepest sharing! have had the honor of listening to The Telepathy Tapes, and along with the natural world's wonders, it is the most profound podcast I have ever (and will probably ever) experience. My response to both is simply: We don't know much. In this modern age, we think we do, yet we don't. And what we don't know, or can't quantify, can result in Magic because it may not have the science lens and/or it may simply remain forever unknown, unproven. Jack Ward Thomas, Wildlife Biologist and the only Wildlife Biologist to administer the U.S. Forest Service: "The old growth forest is more complex than we know...more than we will ever know." American poet Carl Sandberg writes: A 1800's American Calvery Officer is talking/boasting to a Native American Chief, as he draws with a stick in the sand. "This big circle is what WE know." Then he draws a smaller circle within the big one, "And this is what you know." The Chief asks for the stick and draws and enormous circle around the other two, "This is what nobody knows." Thoreau: "Men say they know many things. The arts, the sciences, a thousand appliances. The wind that blows is all any man knows." I love radical empathy! Perhaps, it has little to do about knowing, but much more about feeling. Love, Bill
Thank you for this abundant and kind and expansive response, Bill.
"My response to both is simply: We don't know much." <--Yup. Said beautifully.
Thank you. It seems that you somehow find a way to soar ever higher, taking in an increasingly expansive view of the world, its people, its challenges, joys and conundrums, and waving your magic wand, miraculously putting it down on virtual paper to enrich the world.
<3<3<3
I too have been mulling over this topic for a while . . . I listened to 5 or six episodes before ALL The criticism came out. But I honestly had to stop because I could *feel* the weight of grief of how non-speakers have been treated by our world. I had no trouble listening with openness to the idea of folks meeting on "the hill" but as soon as I started researching the main doctor doing the research (who believes autism can/should be "cured") I was pretty much out. As an autistic person I too struggle with how susceptible I am to grifters or people who have an agenda, and this heavily produced podcast seems to fit into this narrative while also being more complicated than that. I think from a harm reduction standpoint I am hoping against hope this encourages people not to abuse non-speaking children and people, but as far as a piece of journalistic media goes the Telepathy Tapes is riddled with issues.
Hi D.L.! It’s really good to hear from you—thank you for reading and for sharing your thoughts.
I really feel what you said about the weight of grief. I’ve felt that, too. Out of curiosity, was that feeling more connected to the podcast itself, or to the criticism surrounding it? Or both?
Also, when you mention “the main doctor doing the research,” I’m curious who you’re referring to? There are a number of researchers and studies mentioned across the series (especially in the later episodes), and I’m genuinely asking because I’d love to better understand where you’re coming from. Approaching autism as something to be “cured” would be a huge red flag for me, too. And to be clear, I don't see the podcast as promoting that idea whatsoever.
That tension you name—between being open and being careful—is something I’m sitting with as well. One thing I hoped to explore in my piece is how easily we risk flattening real people into ideas, whether by idealizing them or reducing them only to victims of harm. My own response to the podcast is shaped not just by the show itself, but by real relationships I have with nonspeakers—people I’ve worked with, learned from, and witnessed in their full complexity. So I come to it with more context than the podcast alone, and I really do want people to move closer, not farther away, especially when things feel complicated.
If you have the space, I really recommend listening to Episode 10. It’s composed entirely of quotes from nonspeakers—a celebration of agency, insight, and joy. Their voices are present throughout the series, but that episode in particular foregrounds them. And/or I recommend picking up the book I quote throughout my essay! I think for me, this is what matters most: that we’re not just talking about communication methods or research protocols, but about people—and people are always more than any one narrative.
Thanks again for being in this conversation with care <3 I really appreciate it.
I was referring to Dr. Diane Hennecy Powell who is in the first few episodes in particular doing the research. Also this piece points out the really gross evangelical people interviewed in the Telepathy Tapes (there is a connection here to my work with Dr. Dobson stuff): https://www.webworm.co/p/trojanhorse. I think the way this show was produced and the people Ky chose to platform have unfortunately made this a really unreliable source for me personally. But I still believe listening to and learning from non-speakers is so valuable and I hope against hope this does help us humanize this population.
Oof, yeah--really well said re: the unfortunate consequences of who got platformed. Because that's a really troubling thing to learn about Dr. Powell and the other evangelical folks. (And, frankly, kind of baffling to me, given what I understand a core mission of the podcast to be.)
Thank you for clarifying!
Also I think it is honestly such important work you are doing here wrestling with your own intuition, a piece of popular media, and critiques from thinkers you like (but don't always agree with). This is such important stuff! I myself struggle with needing to have everything I like be perfect but that just isn't our reality.
Thank you! That means a lot. Truly.
Also, one last thing: I keep thinking about how important this is, because of the way you said it:
"I think the way this show was produced and the people Ky chose to platform have unfortunately made this a really unreliable source for me personally."
Because you're saying something bigger than just, "this is objectively bad, period" You're pointing out why this resource can't be salvaged *for you.* I just think this is all any of us have: our context! And that conversations that are context-forward are where the realest dialogue can take place, and where we can really start to hear and understand each other.
This is such a nuanced, lovely, generous and thoughtful essay. Thank you. I don’t see how anyone could hate you for writing this, but if they do, that’s their issue—you can’t solve it for them.
I am grateful for Ky Dickens for gathering together so many wonderful stories and conducting fascinating experiments and giving the mike to non speakers. And also frustrated in that she arranged it all in such a way that is very us vs. them. She seems to have a bone to pick with Science and so it’s not surprising that people who align themselves with Science are like, ew! No! Bunk! Etc.
Anyway, the idea that any of us speak completely independently, in a vacuum, is common, but somewhat lacking in understanding. The words that come into my head, the thoughts that arise, are influenced by the other people, nonhuman animals, or plants or wind or sunlight or darkness around me. We are all helping (or hindering) each other to speak and not speak. Some speakers may be distancing distance themselves from non speakers due to be hierarchies of intelligence that are baked into most academic thinking.
Eliza, 1) THANK YOU. And 2) Wow--I think you're spot: "She seems to have a bone to pick with Science and so it’s not surprising that people who align themselves with Science are like, ew! No! Bunk! Etc." This is a really nuanced criticism I hadn't heard yet.
Thanks, too, for all your beautiful words. Really grateful for your readership and to be in dialogue with you.
My sentiments exactly. The strangeness of the believe that what we think we know or speak belongs to our individual vacuum.
I am late diagnosed, self diagnosed, and struggling with peeling off all the internalized ableism that has been suffocating me all these years, not knowing how to find myself apart from the mask. Everything you write, from the fragmented way you organize meaning to the complex, painfully accurate way you organize words, feels as natural as gravity. Thank you for being a guiding light.
As for the Tapes, I’ve listened, i believe them, because i have similar lived experience.
Alexandra! I'm in tears <3 thanks for reading and being in this place with me.
I believe empathy is the key to life. I have worked hard to develop my spelling skills these past twenty years. Therefore, it goes hand in hand with with my ability to empathize with the universality of human experience. Having a forum to discuss these ideas is a true act of love.
Thank you Sarah and all your contributors.
'Carlos
Thank you for reading, Carlos! <3
this is a tour de force, Sarah. Whew. Your commitment to nuance, radical honesty and empathy, and layered critique is so deeply admirable (not to mention courageous). There is this entanglement of spirituality and science that feels deeply connected to the gestalt phenomenology of my own experience as an Autistic, a writer, and a person-in-the-world, and I love how this piece made space for that, and space for gorgeous uncertainty. I ESPECIALLY loved how your writing interweaved with the writing of nonspeakers, crafting more of a tapestry of perspectives than a monolith (AND it made me want to look more into the nonspeaking writers you mentioned, which should be the goal of any telepathy tapes critique or analysis).
Well this really makes me feel like I did something right...THANK YOU for reading and also taking the time to share this lovely feedback.
P.S. I would love to read you talk more about your understanding of gestalt phenomenology and how it speaks to your autistic experience! I imagine maybe you've already published some stuff that speaks to this??
That makes me so happy to hear 🥰
and ah yes!! It’s definitely been underneath and implicitly interwoven through my writing on here so far…but I do have a piece I’m working on re: autism, narrative, gestalt, phenomenology, etc 🤓 I’ll dm you if/when it gets posted on here
Please do!
Thank you so much for writing this! I discovered the criticisms after rushing through many episodes with curiosity and the jubilation of recognition. And then the crushing confusion. Thankfully I happened to find your essay - which helped process my thoughts much faster than if I had had to nut through them on my own. I found my perspective to be mirrored in your words, I even hold dear a similar, perhaps overlapping phrase – radical kindness.
Belle, this makes me *so* happy to read. I had to navigate such strange terrain after first encountering some of the more harmful criticisms, and at times I felt so alone and confused about that. The fact that my essay could help someone else in that same space is just, like, the best possible outcome.
Also: radical kindness! I love this so much. I'd actually love to hear more about what that means to you, if it's something you felt like sharing about in some capacity :)
This was beautifully written, and overwhelmingly familiar, I felt all those feels when I was preparing to deliver my first speech on Toastmasters...via Zoom 😅😜, it was about so much more than the speech, or my written words, it was just me and my internal terrorist trying to out-debate each other, my No pulling back the Yes off of my tongue making it want to curl up in a corner but I did it, I did it scared, I did it croaky, I did it shaky, I did it imperfectly but I did it..., thank you for sharing yourself so authentically with us Sarah, it is this authenticity that builds connection! 💛🌻
This was such an incredibly lovely essay in form and content. From another late- diagnosed autistic who speaks but also frequently finds that the right words are tucked far away in my mind (I describe it as having to dive for words - like swimming to the bottom of a pool to collect items)- thank you so much for sharing this. I related to so, so much, and now I want to listen to the telepathy tapes.
These words meant a lot of me, friend--thank you. I'm especially glad the form of the piece landed well with you <3
Tears of recognition, resonance, release. 🥹 thank you for articulating what I likely never would have.
Thank you for this response that holds so many truths. I have also struggled with both the podcast itself and the various responses to it. The podcast itself changed me in that it invited me to sink more deeply into my belief of what I already know—that a lot of my own communication and perception happens on a plane that is nonverbal and non-quantifiable, one that I can't fully explain. At the same time, I hit a point where I had to stop listening because both the podcast and the discussion around it became too much to me. I found the criticisms to be overly dismissive and unable to hold any room for nuance or possibility. At the same time, the deeper I got into the podcast (I think I stopped at episode 9) the more I found that it moved too quickly through topics I wanted to explore in more depth. (The episode that covers animal telepathy for example.) Anyways, that's just my own relationship to the podcast. I really appreciated the way you so beautifully unpacked this.
Maybe this is already obvious, but I am so right there with you, Jennifer. And the more I metabolize this whole thing, the more I realize both the gifts *and* limitations of the podcast--but more importantly, the gross problem of many of the criticisms not working hard enough to distinguish the pod from the nonspeakers featured on it.
Thank you so much for taking the time to read this behemoth :) I'm really pleased it landed well with you.